Commons Media Collective: External Pricing and Internal Redistribution of Credits

Overview

IMPORTANT: This is a work in progress and we need your input. Pricing that’s fair to everyone is highly important to us. We’ve developed the following sliding-scale pricing system to:

1. Ensure fairness for Guerrilla Translators, including those working on Pro-bono
2. Ensure that those clients who most need our support get cheaper rates.

To ensure that we can do both of these critical things, within our 4-step sliding scale, we assigned the same internal credit value regardless of what rate we charge to clients . For our “cheapest” outside rate, a small part of that credit value will get assigned to the pro-bono stream. When the rate we charge is more than our basic price, the surplus income goes directly toward paying the credits in the pro-bono stream. This ensures that we can always literally afford to work on pro-bono translations, because they are not only valued, but will in time be remunerated as well. The basic price we’ve settled on is 0,12 € per word to the client (0,08 € to the translator, 0,04 € to the editor). This is fair by US standards yet expensive by Spanish standards, so, obviously we’ll be looking for more work outside Spain, which as it happens is mostly how business is developing anyway. Bear in mind that our eventual arrangement with the CIC will allow us to retain a much higher proportion of these prices compared with invoicing them conventionally, with IRPF +IVA (plus atónomos). These are the prices we’ve proposed to clients to date. We believe that even if a client were to suggest that a lower price could be found, we could successfully argue for our quality standard and ethical model for workers, and still get the job (we’ll surely have to put that to the test eventually, but so far, the few clients we’ve worked with have been overwhelmingly supportive.) There’s plenty of room for discussion and comments, but if we want to hold a more general discussion please refer to the Loomio thread related to this working document. The Trello task associated with pricing is here. Everything that’s written below is intended to be cleaned up for an eventual Wiki entry. We won’t have it linked upfront, but we can direct clients to it after charming them with our translating arts. Read on and co-ment away. _____________________________________________________________________________

Literary Translation (cents of €) includes expert artisanal translation and native Editing and proofreading

1st tier: (Corporate clients)

0,16 per word to the CLIENT. Credits are assigned this way:

• 0,08 to the translator

• 0,04 to the Editor (includes 0,01 proofreading)

• 0,04 to the pro-bono income stream

2nd tier (Startups, large NGOs )

0.14 per word to the CLIENT, to then assign:

• 0,08 to the translator
• 0,04 to the editor (includes 0,01 proofreading)

• 0,02 to the pro-bono income stream

3rd tier (Free/OS software startups, small NGO's, regular co-ops)

0.12 per word to the CLIENT, to then assign

• 0,08 to the translator

• 0,04 to the editor (includes. 0,01 proofreading)

• 0,00 to the pro-bono income stream

4th tier (Activist collectives + ethical coops) (NOT non-profits)

0.10 per word to the CLIENT, to then assign

• 0,07 to translator

• 0,03 to the editor
• Translator gets 0,01 in credits assigned to his/her pro-bono “queue”
• Editor gets 0,01 in credits assigned to his/her pro-bono “queue”

Written translation: webformatting hyperlinks

Hyperlinks

• Per article: 5 and below FREE
• 5-10. 20 € (to customer) 20 credits (to Guerrilla Translator)
• [1>Each additional hyperlink after + 10: 3 € (to customer) 3 credits (to Guerrilla Translator) each<1].

Web formatting

• 0,02 per word.

Website translation

SAME PRICING AS LITERARY TRANSLATION. Need to research tools for website translation.

Film/subtitling

For simplicity, this parallels the word rates. The prices here follow the same structure as above. Rather than repeating the whole breakdown, we’ve only broken it down in our “base” pricing (3rd tier). Most jobs would include the following: Prices per minute, including:

• Hearing
• Translation
• Subtitling
• Editing
• On screen Proofreading

[2>We could feasibly include “transcription” here, but that would be included in “hearing” <2]in a sense. [3>I don’t foresee many occasions in which a client will want a transcript<3] if we can translate direct from vid.

1st tier: (Corporate clients)

• 16 € per minute of video to the CLIENT.

Credits are assigned as 3rd tier above, but with + 4€ per minute to the pro-bono income stream

2 nd tier (Start Ups, large NGO's )

• 14 € per minute to the CLIENT.

Credits are assigned as 3rd tier above, but with + 2€ per minute to the pro-bono income stream

3rd tier. (Free/open software startups, small NGOs, regular co-ops)

12 € per minute to the CLIENT. Credits are assigned this way

• [4>Translation: 8 credits (Includes “hearing” [2] + subtitling [2])
• [5>Editing: 4 credits (Includes final subs timing adjustment [1] and on-screen proofreading [1])

<5](0 € to the pro-bono income stream)

<4]4th tier (Activist Collectives + Ethical coops) (NOT non-profits)

10 € per minute to the CLIENT. Credits are assigned this way:

• • Translation 6,50 (Includes “hearing” [1,50] + subtitling [1,50])
  • Editing 3,25 (Includes final subs timing adjustment [0,65] and on-screen proofreading [0,60])

• Translator gets 1,50 credits per minute assigned to his/her pro-bono queue
• Editor gets 0,75 credits per minute assigned to his/her pro-bono queue

For film/script translation Stacco will dig out his old price lists for the Studios he used to work for.

(Pending) Feel free to [6>write down prices while he gets to that

<6]Editing (w/ no translation)

There are several open questions to take into account with direct editing work, which are listed below. For simplicity, the price should be the same as the “Editor’s cut” above, whether it involves checking against an original translation or not. Higher rates may then apply in the following cases:

1. Are we editing a translation produced by someone outside the collective? Will we compare it to the original? What is the quality of the translation?
2. Are we editing writing in the original language, but including content editing/critical suggestions, etc?
3. Is it editing in the original language, but working on a sub-par text?
4. Is it “fixing a bad haircut”? This can mean any kind of semi-nightmare that we’re contracted to help bring back to an acceptably high standard.
5. [7>We should have a code system for sub-par text (whether translated or not). Most likely 3 levels down from “standard”.

<7]Audio Transcription

• budget of 4 x EUR 1.5k for implementators ; legal advise EUR 3,000 ; Coordination and conceptual control EUR 1,000

NOTE: AM made a great template for evaluating audio/speech quality and priced accordingly. We’ve investigated some prices here but haven’t yet formalized them. As with other stuff, feel free to add your findings and thoughts to ours below:

Transcription prices are variable and will not be quoted "firm" until a review is made of the actual audio. The range of factors affecting audio quality is quite wide, and the price must reflect the time spent not only physically producing the transcript but also hearing and reviewing the material.

Here's some tentative figures:

(with "normal" audio quality)

- 3 € per minute (no polishing)

- 4,50 € per minute (with polishing)

These would also have to be broken down according to the sliding scale pricing mechanism (ie: the prices suggeste above would be the "3rd tier" prices.

VALUE ASSIGNED FOR GUERRILLA TRANSLATION BLOG MATERIAL

(This includes all articles, videos posted on our blog. Bear in mind that for all the material we’ve published on the blog, the work put into contacting authors, formatting for Wordpress, adding images, promoting in social media, republishing is quite considerable, and should get compensated in order to encourage Guerrilla Translators to assign themselves these sorts of tasks. This is value-assigned, of course, not actual income. We’ve chosen to assign a per-word rate for these organizational tasks related to pro-bono translation, as the effort needed for the editing is usually proportional to the wordcount. Same goes for post-production (longer articles demand creating more SM posts, contacting more people to promote them, etc.). [8>The odd bird here is “pre-production”. Sometimes it takes two minutes, sometimes it isn’t needed (as when we have permission from authors to translate any of their work), and sometimes it takes weeks of follow up and coordination. What shall we do?<8] 0.16 per-word value assigned for payment as follows:

• 0,08 to the translator
• 0,04 to the editor
• 0,01 pre production
• 0,02 formatting
• 0,01 post production

Original writing and bios

We should also value the short intros and original writing we do for the web magazine. This would also include bios as well, since most of them are not translations. This is the value allocation we’ve determined: TOTAL: 0,08

• 0,055 to original writer
• 0,025 to the editor

[1]

Added por Stacco en octubre 21, PMat 3:55 p.m. I added this based on a comment by Susa (which seems to have dissappeared)

[2]

"Hearing" por Susa en octubre 20, PMat 10:52 p.m. This comment makes me think that I'm not sure what you mean by "hearing". I thought just watching it, as you would read a whole text to get an idea and translate according to the subject matter, the register, etc. But from that to actually transcribing it... And time-coding it for timing adjustment?

(2.1)

Re: "Hearing" por Stacco en octubre 21, PMat 3:56 p.m. By "hearing" I mean translating without a script, ie direct from the video. With modern subtitling programs you don't have to do much to generate a time code, it does so automatically through the interface

[3]

Film transcripts por Susa en octubre 20, PMat 10:33 p.m. Actually, not only should the client provide us with a transcript but this transcript should be time-coded.

(3.1)

Re: Film transcripts por Susa en octubre 20, PMat 11:11 p.m. Also, the transcript and the time-coding are two different things, because being able to insert your subtitle more or less in the same text boxes saves you precious time. And the issue with the client providing us with a time-coded transcript is so that we can wash our hands should there be any discrepancies.

(3.1.1)

Re: Re: Film transcripts por Stacco en octubre 21, PMat 3:58 p.m. I find that time coding based on the original simply doesn't work, it's much better if we code it ourselves from the beginning. We had a HORRIBLE time working with pre set time codes for a Rushkoff video we did and, as I've said, syncing the subs is pretty easy with a program like Amara if you've got the knack for that sort of thing.

[4]

Subtitle Training por Stacco en septiembre 23, PMat 12:29 p.m. So the optimal thing here is that both translator and editor are familiar with the subtitling software. This is something that we can do tutorials on so everyone gets up to speed. It’s actually very easy, but you need some “dry runs” before taking on paying, deadline gigs

(4.1)

Re: Subtitle Training por Lara en octubre 11, PMat 7:58 p.m. What subt software are we going to use exactly?

(4.1.1)

Re: Re: Subtitle Training por Stacco en octubre 12, AMat 4:38 a.m. Up until now Amara, but I'm curious about trying out Aegis. Maybe you could give us an online tutorial, Lara?

(4.1.1.1)

Re: Re: Re: Subtitle Training por Lara en octubre 13, PMat 3:15 p.m. If everyone agrees.. I'm in! (:

(4.1.1.1.1)

Re: Re: Re: Re: Subtitle Training por Susa en octubre 20, PMat 10:35 p.m. Great.

(4.1.1.2)

Re: Re: Re: Subtitle por Susa en octubre 20, PMat 11:04 p.m. Some subtitling software allows the client to change things afterwards, but some don't (and that can be a drag). I think that's important to know from the start.

(4.2)

Re: Subtitle Training por Susa en octubre 20, PMat 10:39 p.m. So here, in the Film section, it's not clear whether one receives only credits and/or € too :)

[5]

Editing Film Translation por Susa en octubre 20, PMat 10:47 p.m. By the little subtitling I've done I know that subs timing adjustment alone may take longer than a simple editing will (and by this I mean checking style and grammar/punctuation), since you could do the latter on a Word document. I'm not sure that 8 credits vs. 4 would be fair (perhaps 7 vs 5?), but we'll have to test it in the real world.

(5.1)

Re: Editing Film Translation por Stacco en octubre 21, PMat 4:02 p.m. I think that 4 is fair, the bulk of the subtitling and timing would be done by the translator, the editor would only have to make minor tweaks based on personal preference or if she has changed the length of the subtitled text or something, You can also check the grammar and correct the text in Word and then upload the document back to the subtitling software. It's something to learn but, once you've got it, you'll see that it's quite simple in practise.

[6]

Film/Script Translation Prices por Susa en octubre 20, PMat 11:02 p.m. My sister, in California, charged anywhere from $1,000 to $1,500 for a 30-minute video, maybe a couple of years ago. She says that, apart from regular text editing, you have to allow about a day's work for compressing and summarizing, since this also means adjusting subs. visually (to speech) and conceptually. We'll also have to agree to a punctuation code, such as with periods or commas, as in the US, or without, as in the BBC.

(6.1)

Re: Film/Script Translation Prices por Stacco en octubre 21, PMat 4:20 p.m. Yeah, by this I mean translating a film for overdubbing. (ie a script that goes to voice actors) there's no timing involved. Your sister got very well paid!! I've attached a price list from the studio I worked for from 2007 (before prices starting dropping) in the Trello card for this discussion: https://trello.com/c/4ClOA2Jw

[7]

“fixing a bad haircut” por Susa en octubre 20, PMat 11:15 p.m. Yes, we have to watch out here. The thesis that we just declined to edit was a great example of this: 100,000 words by someone whose spoken English is probably very good but leaves much to be desired in writing.

[8]

The "pre-production" odd bird por Susa en octubre 20, PMat 11:20 p.m. Knowing this odd bird exists, we could follow the assigned prices but with the proviso that all the parties (especially pre-production) agree at the end.

(8.1)

Re: The "pre-production" odd bird por Stacco en octubre 21, PMat 4:25 p.m. Yeah I think this is mainly the "pre-producer's" call. We want to incorporate "gifting" into the software. Ie, the ability of foregoing credits on tasks (or transferring credits you've earned to someone else). So, for example, if there's no preproduction to speak of, those credits can be voided.